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SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans

Jackson S. Turner, Wooseob Kim, Elizaveta Kalaidina

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Charles W. Goss, Adriana M. Rauseo, Aaron J. Schmitz, Lena Hansen, Alem Haile, Michael K. Klebert, Iskra Pusic, Jane A. O’Halloran, Rachel M. Presti, Ali H. Ellebedy

2021 · Nature

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criticaltinker
Recommendation · rule
> For the recovered? No The scientific literature supports your position, see [1][2]. In fact there is no benefit to vaccinating these individuals, at least nothing published in the literature yet (please share links if anyone has evidence otherwise). > Is there a significant chance that the vaccine will apply selective pressure to the virus leading to an escape variant? It's an interesting topic, I recommend exploring some of the lit and the current trends with Delta Here are some great resources to learn about this topic [3][4][5][6][7][8]. If you're new to this topic try starting with [6]. Otherwise [3] is an accessible paper to jump into. [8] gives you an idea how…
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this could play out, with evidence from chickens. > Is it plausible that the vaccine industry is applying financial incentives to folks at [BIG MEDIA] to promote max vaccination? I have no peer-reviewed references for this (yet), but to those reading please share if you do! [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v... [3] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ [4] SARS-CoV-2 immune evasion by the B.1.427/B.1.429 variant of concern https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/06/30/scie... [5] mRNA vaccine-elicited antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 and circulating variants https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03324-6 [6] Why does drug resistance readily evolve but vaccine resistance does not? https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2016... [7] The adaptive evolution of virulence: a review of theoretical predictions and empirical tests https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c... [8] Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fj...
walterbell
Neutral mention · rule
Scientific papers can be evaluated by reading the paper. Let's link a few peer-reviewed papers here to eliminate the middleman of Brownstone: "One-year sustained cellular and humoral immunities of COVID-19 convalescents", Clinical Infectious Diseases, Oct 2021, https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid... > SARS-CoV-2-specific cellular and humoral immunities are durable at least until one year after disease onset. "Discrete Immune Response Signature to SARS-CoV-2 mRNA Vaccination Versus Infection", Cell, May 2021, https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3838993 > .. our analysis revealed significant qualitative differences between the two…
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types of immune challenges. In COVID-19 patients, immune responses were characterized by a highly augmented interferon response which was largely absent in vaccine recipients. Increased interferon signaling likely contributed to the observed dramatic upregulation of cytotoxic genes in the peripheral T cells and innate-like lymphocytes in patients but not in immunized subjects. Analysis of B and T cell receptor repertoires revealed that while the majority of clonal B and T cells in COVID-19 patients were effector cells, in vaccine recipients clonally expanded cells were primarily circulating memory cells. Importantly, the divergence in immune subsets engaged, the transcriptional differences in key immune populations, and the differences in maturation of adaptive immune cells revealed by our analysis have far-ranging implications for immunity to this novel pathogen. "SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans", Nature, May 2021, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4 > .. our data provide strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 infection in humans robustly establishes the two arms of humoral immune memory: long-lived BMPCs and memory B cells. These findings provide an immunogenicity benchmark for SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and a foundation for assessing the durability of primary humoral immune responses that are induced in humans after viral infections.
wang_li
Neutral mention · rule
According to data from Israel, immunity from having gotten the infection is much better at stopping the delta variant by a factor of around 7x. Other research shows that natural immunity is long lasting. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
> Ideally, everyone would be tested for antibodies before receiving a vaccine I agree that would help make optimal decisions with regards to distributing a limited supply of vaccine doses. However it's worth noting that even when antibodies drop below levels detectable by standard tests, individuals are likely to retain robust immune responses that provide sufficient protection from severe outcomes [1][2]. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Prior COVID-19 protects against reinfection, even in the absence of detectable antibodies https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)002...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
I agree that people need to stop linking to news and media articles. While it might be fair to challenge the credibility of WSJ, you should know that the CDC study you cited had a relatively small sample size and was limited to a small geographic area over a 2 month period. Recent large scale multicentre studies with ~100x more participants have provided strong counter evidence that natural infection confers highly effective protection [3]. > A previous history of SARS-CoV-2 infection was associated with an 84% lower risk of infection, with median protective effect observed 7 months following primary infection. This time period is the minimum probable effect because…
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seroconversions were not included. This study shows that previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 induces effective immunity to future infections in most individuals. [3] For reference here's high quality publications supporting GP's claim that natural infection provides robust and durable immunity that is at least as protective as vaccination [1][2][3][4]. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Longitudinal analysis shows durable and broad immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection with persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-37... [3] SARS-CoV-2 infection rates of antibody-positive compared with antibody-negative health-care workers in England: a large, multicentre, prospective cohort study (SIREN) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33844963/ [4] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
There is no scientific consensus that naturally acquired immunity gives better protection than vaccines. Two facts that are trending toward consensus in the scientific literature: A) Naturally infected individuals who recover will acquire robust and durable immunity [1][2] B) Natural infection induces an immune response that is mostly similar but slightly different than the immune response induced by vaccination. The primary differences can be summarized as: naturally infected individuals have nucleocapsid protein antibodies whereas vaccinated individuals do not, and vaccinated individuals have an immune response highly targeted toward the spike protein RBD. [3][4][5] In…
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summary many people hypothesize that natural infection is better because it induces a broader and more balance antibody response, but the literature has not established consensus that this is necessarily "better" in terms of health outcomes for individuals. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Longitudinal analysis shows durable and broad immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection with persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-37... [3] Rapid induction of antigen-specific CD4+ T cells is associated with coordinated humoral and cellular immune responses to SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination https://www.cell.com/immunity/fulltext/S1074-7613(21)00308-3 [4] Distinct SARS-CoV-2 Antibody Responses Elicited by Natural Infection and mRNA Vaccination https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v4 [5] Antibodies elicited by mRNA-1273 vaccination bind more broadly to the receptor binding domain than do those from SARS-CoV-2 infection https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34103407/
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
Even if you don't have detectable levels of antibodies - if you've been previously infected or vaccinated - you will likely have robust and durable immunity that greatly reduces the risk of hospitalization and death [1][2][3]. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Longitudinal analysis shows durable and broad immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection with persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-37... [3] Rapid induction of antigen-specific CD4+ T cells is associated with coordinated humoral and cellular immune responses to SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination https://www.cell.com/immunity/fulltext/S1074-7613(21)00308-3
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
> links to more credible sites supporting or denying the claims made in the article? There were a lot of claims made - which claims are you interested in? There is growing scientific consensus that naturally infected individuals who recover will acquire robust and durable immunity [1][2][3][4]. > new people are going to get born who are completely susceptible because they have never been infected yet and won’t be vaccinated This claim stuck out to me as especially unsupported, hinting at the authors lack of expertise in this area. Here are several publications supporting the fact that infection and immunity can be passed from mother to child in utero [5][6][7]. [1]…
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SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Longitudinal analysis shows durable and broad immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection with persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-37... [3] Antibody Responses 8 Months after Asymptomatic or Mild SARS-CoV-2 Infection https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7920668/ [4] Naturally enhanced neutralizing breadth against SARS-CoV-2 one year after infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03696-9 [5] Efficient maternal to neonatal transfer of antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 and BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccine https://www.jci.org/articles/view/150319 [6] Possible Vertical Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 From an Infected Mother to Her Newborn https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763853 [7] Compromised SARS-CoV-2-specific placental antibody transfer https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S009286742...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
Here are some doctors and scientists with "different" views - ie ideas and facts you are unlikely to hear about from mainstream media, and divisive vax versus anti-vax rhetoric. A) Multidrug treatment using existing medicines early in the symptomatic phase of COVID-19 can dramatically reduce the risk of hospitalization and death [1][2][3]. Coming from front-line doctors actually treating COVID-19 patients, and highly educated and published researchers, this is the most cited literature on the topic that does not concern vaccines. B) Naturally infected individuals who have recovered acquire robust and durable immunity, and are unlikely to benefit from subsequent…
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vaccination [4][5][6][7]. C) Mandatory nonpharmaceutical interventions such as masks and quarantine may lead to particularly devastating seasons of endemic illnesses such as influenza and RSV [8]. This may further strain medical and healthcare facilities and affect our ability to mitigate the pandemic. D) Compulsory mass vaccination - combined with vaccines that do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission - may cause selective pressure that further enhances the fitness of the virus [9][10][11][12][13][14][15]. This can lead to partial or complete immune escape which manifests as increased transmission or virulence, reduced vaccine efficacy, and reduced protection in individuals with naturally acquired immunity. [1] Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30673-2/fulltex... [2] Multifaceted highly targeted sequential multidrug treatment of early ambulatory high-risk SARS-CoV-2 infection (COVID-19) https://scholarlycommons.henryford.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a... [3] Peter McCullough, MD testifies to Texas Senate HHS Committee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM [4] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [5] Longitudinal analysis shows durable and broad immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection with persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-37... [6] Antibody Responses 8 Months after Asymptomatic or Mild SARS-CoV-2 Infection https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7920668/ [7] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v... [8] The impact of COVID-19 nonpharmaceutical interventions on the future dynamics of endemic infections https://www.pnas.org/content/117/48/30547 [9] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ [10] SARS-CoV-2 immune evasion by the B.1.427/B.1.429 variant of concern https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/06/30/scie... [11] mRNA vaccine-elicited antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 and circulating variants https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03324-6 [12] Reduced sensitivity of SARS-CoV-2 variant Delta to antibody neutralization https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9 [13] The adaptive evolution of virulence: a review of theoretical predictions and empirical tests https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26302775/ [14] Why does drug resistance readily evolve but vaccine resistance does not? https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2016... [15] Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fj...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
This paper further supports the fact that naturally acquired immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is 1) robust and 2) durable. 1) Robust means the immune response recognizes many different parts of the virus. 2) Durable means the immune response remains detectable - and likely effective at protecting the individual - for a long period of time. A robust immune response is important because it provides a certain degree of protection against variants of the virus. This robustness is why some people hypothesize that natural immunity provides better protection than vaccination - however this hypothesis has not been conclusively proven in the literature yet. If you're aware of primary…
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sources that say otherwise please share them. For now, all available evidence strongly suggests that individuals with naturally acquired immunity are at least equally well protected as individuals who have been vaccinated. Here are a couple more supporting references [1][2]. As a final point - in the literature there is some evidence & concern that the current mRNA vaccines induce an immune response which is highly targeted toward the spike protein [3]. When combined with mass vaccination campaigns, this creates tremendous selective pressure that can further enhance the fitness of the virus, and lead to increasingly infectious or virulent variants [3][4][5][6]. It's clear that vaccination poses little additional risk - but also little benefit - to previously infected individuals, and consequently our vaccination campaigns should be highly targeted toward vulnerable demographics to reap the most benefits and minimize the risks to public health. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v... [3] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ [4] SARS-CoV-2 immune evasion by the B.1.427/B.1.429 variant of concern https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/06/30/scie... [5] mRNA vaccine-elicited antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 and circulating variants https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03324-6 [6] Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fj...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
Well put and I couldn't agree more that diversity is essential for robust and fair ecosystems. > And, just consider, you might just be wrong And it's okay to be wrong, so long as one keeps an open mind and considers all the available evidence. For example, consider that people who have been infected and recovered have robust and durable immunity that is proving to be at least equally as effective as vaccination [1][2]. It would be a waste to force these people to be vaccinated, especially when there are many other people who would greatly benefit from those doses (eg in developing countries with limited access to modern healthcare facilities). [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
> vaccines protect the population in general by stopping the spread of Covid This is a bit too strongly worded, and is borderline misinformation. The current mRNA vaccines are imperfect - they do not provide sterilizing immunity - and consequently people who are vaccinated can still be infected and transmit the virus. There is a small but growing subset of the scientific literature raising concerns about this - the keywords you can search for are vaccine induced immune escape. But I'll save you some time and link you to an accessible peer-reviewed paper on the subject as an introduction [1]. FWIW I agree that vaccines are useful - particularly for vulnerable demographics…
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- and present very low risk of complications for an individual. That said, many people are unaware of the potential second order consequences of mass vaccination. Furthermore, many people are unaware that previously infected and recovered individuals have robust and durable immunity to SARS-CoV-2 [2][3]. These are strong arguments for a strategically targeted vaccination campaign - the opposite of compulsory vaccination for everyone. [1] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ [2] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [3] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
> From a variant that only exists because of unvaccinated people I don't blame you for believing this because rhetoric from Fauci and others is constantly pushing this idea. But if you want to be well informed you should at least be aware of a couple major counterpoints. First, people who have been infected and recovered have robust and durable immunity that is at least equally as effective as vaccination [1][2]. Second, the current mRNA vaccines induce a highly targeted immune response to the spike protein, which - when coupled with mass vaccination - applies tremendous selective pressure on the virus [3][4][5]. This can actually further enhance the fitness of the virus.…
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I've linked to several more peer reviewed papers to further demonstrate my points [6][7][8] - these are serious concerns being put forth by highly regarded researchers at top institutions in the country. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v... [3] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ [4] SARS-CoV-2 immune evasion by the B.1.427/B.1.429 variant of concern https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/06/30/scie... [5] mRNA vaccine-elicited antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 and circulating variants https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03324-6 [6] Why does drug resistance readily evolve but vaccine resistance does not? https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2016... [7] The adaptive evolution of virulence: a review of theoretical predictions and empirical tests https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c... [8] Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fj...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
I agree that the vaccines pose very little risk to a given individual, even though the possibility of long-term effects have yet to be ruled-out in the scientific literature. But there are selective pressures & second order effects to consider regarding mass vaccination using the current mRNA vaccines which induce an immune response that is highly targeted towards the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein [1][2]. Combined with the evidence that people who have naturally acquired immunity are protected equally as well as vaccinated individuals [3][4], and that combinations of existing medicines have proven effective in reducing hospitalization and death [5] - don't you think that a…
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strategy focused on vaccinating only the most vulnerable populations across the world would be more rational? [1] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ [2] SARS-CoV-2 immune evasion by the B.1.427/B.1.429 variant of concern https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/06/30/scie... [3] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [4] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v... [5] Multifaceted highly targeted sequential multidrug treatment of early ambulatory high-risk SARS-CoV-2 infection (COVID-19) https://scholarlycommons.henryford.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
I concur, the available evidence indicates that naturally acquired immunity works at least as well as vaccination [1][2]. There are biological reasons & theories why naturally acquired immunity may be more robust to variants (immune system learns to target a variety of markers/proteins of the virus, compared to the highly targeted immune response to the spike protein based mRNA vaccines). However to my knowledge there is no conclusive evidence of this yet in the literature on SARS-CoV-2. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
> Immunity from vaccination seems to be stronger than immunity from having the disease, but it's too early to be sure Unless anyone can cite peer-reviewed sources that indicate otherwise, there doesn't appear to be any conclusive evidence on this point. In fact these publications provide evidence that naturally acquired immunity is just as effective as vaccination [1][2] ([2] hasn't been peer-reviewed yet). > How long vaccine immunity lasts is an open question. So far, it's at least N months, where N is how long the vaccines have been in wide use. Beyond that is speculation. I'm interested in recent peer-reviewed literature supporting this point, and would be grateful if…
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anyone could share links. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
Here are some primary sources which support the fact that infection leads to robust and durable immunity. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...
criticaltinker
Neutral mention · rule
Completely agree with you and parent comment, just wanted to add a few more references to peer-reviewed literature supporting these ideas [1][2]. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...

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