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Political instability may be a contributor in the coming decade

Peter Turchin

2010 · Nature

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cr4zy
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Turchin's political stability indicator predicts this due to rising economic inequality, overproduction of grads with advanced degrees, and exploding public debt [0][1]. However, civil wars usually occur in poorer countries [1][2]. Also the proportion of the world in civil war is 1% and falling exponentially [2]. Finally, Metaculus gives a 5% chance of US civil war before 2031, where a recent July bump is discussed in the comments (Roe, Jan 6) [3]. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a [1] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/political-... [2] https://www.nber.org/reporter/2011number3/economic-shocks-we... [3]…
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https://www.metaculus.com/questions/6179/second-us-civil-war... Notes: The Harvard December 2021 youth poll participants gave as 35% chance in their lifetime: https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/fall-2021-harvard-youth-p... Rasmussen 2018 poll: 33% likely, 10% very likely before 2023 https://www.newsweek.com/second-civil-war-likely-one-third-a... Does anyone have a graph of this probabilty over time from a consistent source like rasmussen? https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/que...
mathlover2
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First, the post is irksome, with the arguments for there not being a collapse in the near future being admittedly very hand-wavy for reasons other commentators here have described. Second, while the post is irksome, Turchin's methodology is extremely shoddy. The fact that climatologic models (modeling an arguably slower-moving and certainly better-understood system than humans alone or in aggregate) require the use of sophisticated mathematics and intensive computer usage, as opposed to Turchin looking at large collections of historical data, determining patterns seemingly by eyeball, and predicting maybe a decade in advance without so much as a mention of a computer…
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program to produce the prediction, is illustrative of the methodological shortfall. Moreover, Turchin's original prediction was much vaguer than he or current media around him presents it: "The next decade (i.e, the years around 2020) is likely to be a period of growing instability in the United States and western Europe, which could undermine the sort of scientific progress you describe in the Opinion collection of '2020 visions' " (source: https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a) To call "growing instability" a vague prediction is an understatement. It could refer to civil war, democratic decline, crime rates, bad days at work, productivity drops, or any number of other things one could imagine. In this case, it refers primarily to protests against racism (the violent parts of which are comparatively rare and perpetrated mostly by a small number of opportunists) and secondarily to a long-running trend of political polarization, neither of which are particularly unheard of in recent memory. In both cases, these movements are overwhelmingly a problem in the US, with Europe looking calm in comparison. It is therefore somewhat likely that Turchin is not as much a Hari Seldman, or even a poor imitation thereof, as much as a John Edward: that is, he is a cold reader.
lwneal
Neutral mention · rule
For further context: this Economist article [1] references a letter to the editor by Peter Turchin [2], which is itself a response to the Nature 2010 opinion article "2020 visions" [3]. [1] https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2020/10/24/c... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a.pdf [3] https://www.demogr.mpg.de/publications/files/3706_1264687048...
hourislate
Neutral mention · rule
I remember reading years ago about how 2020 was going to be a very significant year of economic havoc and social upheaval. There were studies from MIT and others that made these predictions based on different models at least 5 years ago. I remember one interesting study that used some kind of model based on predators hunting prey. I think it may have been wolves. Anyway, for the life of me I have searched high and low and just can't find any of them on the Internet anymore. It's like they all disappeared. I have tried to find them because they also spoke of how long this period may last and it would be interesting to see what they said (sadly I have forgotten. The search will continue..... Here is a related article but not the one I'm looking for... Feb 2010 Political instability may be a contributor in the coming decade https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a

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