No, not nonsense. Both are a lookup table whose key is the entire context window and whose value is a probability distribution for what the next token should be. You can say the choice of probability distribution in the value is "leveraging the internal structure of the context" or not, but the same tokens in two different orders are two different lookup keys and saying it's impossible to achieve some result with a Markov chain is factually incorrect. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2410.02724 describes the equivalence formally.
Large Language Models as Markov Chains
Oussama Zekri, Ambroise Odonnat, Abdelhakim Benechehab
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Linus Bleistein, Nicolas Boullé, Ievgen Redko
2024 · arXiv
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Large language models (LLMs) are remarkably efficient across a wide range of natural language processing tasks and well beyond them. However, a comprehensive theoretical analysis of the LLMs' generalization capabilities remains elusive. In our paper, we approach this task by drawing an equivalence between autoregressive transformer-based language models and Markov chains defined on a finite state space. This allows us to study the multi-step inference mechanism of LLMs from first principles. We relate the obtained results to the pathological behavior observed with LLMs such as repetitions and incoherent replies with high temperature. Finally, we leverage the proposed formalization to derive pre-training and in-context learning generalization bounds for LLMs under realistic data and model assumptions. Experiments with the most recent Llama and Gemma herds of models show that our theory correctly captures their behavior in practice.
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> doesn't that mean we're approaching optimality? No. Transformers are Markov chains [1]. Somewhere around this fascinating site [2] I read that stateful models have an advantage. Author provided an example, a state machine with two states A and B, where at state A transitions are to state A (output 0) and to state B (output 1) with equal probability and at state B the transition is always to state A and output is always 1. For this state machine just one bit of memory can make an optimal prediction that ones always go in pairs, whereas Markov chain will approximate this prediction and never reach optimality. [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.02724 [2] https://bactra.org/
Regarding the stochastic parrots: It is easy to see that LLMs exclusively parrot by asking them about current political topics [1], because they cannot plagiarize settled history from Wikipedia and Britannica. But of course there also is the equivalence between LLMs and Markov chains. As far as I can see, it does not rely on absurd equivalences like encoding all possible output states in an infinite Markov chain: https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.02724 Then there is stochastic parrot research: https://arxiv.org/abs/2502.08946 "The stochastic parrot phenomenon is present in LLMs, as they fail on our grid task but can describe and recognize the same concepts well in natural language." As said above, this is obvious to anyone who has interacted with LLMs. Most researchers know what is expected of them if they want to get funding and will not research the obvious too deeply. [1] They have Internet access of course.
Not that different. In fact, you can use Markov Chain theory as an analytical tool to study LLMs: https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.02724 You could probably point your code to Google Books N-grams (https://storage.googleapis.com/books/ngrams/books/datasetsv3...) and get something that sounds (somewhat) reasonable.
At no point have I argued that LLMs aren’t autoregressive, I am merely talking about LLMs ability to reason across time steps, so it seems we are talking past each other which won’t lead anywhere. And yes, LLM can be studied under the lens of Markov processes: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2410.02724 Have a good day
Calf isn't making an appeal to authority. They are saying "I'm not the idiot you think I am." Two very different things. Likely also a request to talk more mathy to them. I read your link btw and I just don't know how someone can do all that work and not establish the Markov Property. That's like the first step. Speaking of which, I'm not sure I even understand the first definition of your link. I've never heard the phrase "computably countable" before, but I have head "computable number," which these numbers are countable. This does seem to be what it is referring to? So I'll assume that? (My dissertation wasn't on models of computation, it was on neural architectures)…
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In 1.2.2 is there a reason for strictly uniform noise? It also seems to run counter to the deterministic setting. Regardless, I agree with Calf, it's very clear MCs are not equivalent to LLMs. That is trivially a false statement. But the question of if an LLM can be represented via a MC is a different question. I did find this paper on the topic[0], but I need to give it a better read. Does look like it was rejected from ICLR[1], though ML review is very noisy. Including the link as comments are more informative than the accept/reject signal. (@Calf, sorry, I didn't respond to your comment because I wasn't trying to make a comment about the relationship of LLMs and MCs. Only that there was more fundamental research being overshadowed) [0] https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.02724 [1] https://openreview.net/forum?id=RDFkGZ9Dkh
> LLMs are Markov Chains on steroids? Might be a reference to this[1] blog post which was posted here[2] a year ago. There has also been some academic work linking the two, like this[3] paper. [1]: https://elijahpotter.dev/articles/markov_chains_are_the_orig... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39213410 [3]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.02724
LLMs are Markov Chains [1]. "Emergent abilities" of LLMs can be explained by decrease of perplexity in text prediction [2]. [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.02724 [2] https://arxiv.org/abs/2304.15004
If you want to steal code, you can take it from GitHub and strip the license. That is what the Markov chains (https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.02724) do. It's a code laundering machine. Software engineering has a higher number of people who have never created anything by themselves and have no issues with copyright infringement. Other professions still tend to take a broader view. Even unproductive people in other professions may have compunctions about stealing other people's work.
There definitely is, but Marcus is not the only one talking about it. For example, we covered this paper in one of our internal journal clubs a few weeks ago: https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.02724
Keep following the thread.
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