Skip to content
Back to the collection

Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans

Author metadata unavailable

2022 · Nature Human Behaviour

Read the paper
HN score
0
Mentions
15
Readers
10
Months
12
What’s in a score?

In the conversation

Original HN comments, with labels from simple text rules. A label describes the whole comment and may miss context or irony. Read the discussion to make up your own mind. About the labels

15 selected excerpts · 15 total mentions

like_any_other
Neutral mention · rule
The administration merely doesn't want to let academia itself take all the credit for destroying American science. Such as when scientists were forced to make an ideological oath to diversity to get hired [1,2], were hired primarily based on adherence to that ideology [3,4,5], were told by major scientific publications to avoid or simply not publish studies that might question that ideology [6,7], disavowed studies based solely on them being used to criticize favored causes [8], were prosecuted by the state (albeit in Sweden) for true findings that harmed that ideology [9]. Papers were rejected if their results went against the liberal worldview, but…
Read the full comment
methodologically-identical papers with pro-liberal results were accepted [10], and scientists were barred from accessing taxpayer-funded data if there was a risk their research might harm the dominant ideology [11]. [1] Required ‘diversity and inclusion’ statements amount to a political litmus test for hiring - https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-universitys-new-loyalty-oat... [2] Diversity Statements Required for One-Fifth of Academic Jobs - https://www.schoolinfosystem.org/2021/11/11/study-diversity-... [3] Berkeley Weeded Out Job Applicants Who Didn't Propose Specific Plans To Advance Diversity - https://reason.com/2020/02/03/university-of-california-diver... [4] A recent report from the Goldwater Institute found that 80% of job postings for Arizona’s public universities required applicants to submit a statement detailing their commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion. - https://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/policy-report/the-new-loy... [5] Mathematicians divided over faculty hiring practices that require proof of efforts to promote diversity - https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/mathematicians-divid... [6] Science Must Not Be Used to Foster White Supremacy - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-must-not-... [7] Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 [8] I Cited Their Study, So They Disavowed It - https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-cited-their-study-so-they-dis... [9] A Swedish professor proved that most rapes are committed by immigrants. The prosecutor's office took care of it - https://portal.research.lu.se/en/activities/a-swedish-profes... [10] Human subjects review, personal values, and the regulation of social science research. - https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-12806-001 [11] The National Institutes of Health now blocks access to an important database if it thinks a scientist’s research may enter “forbidden” territory. - https://www.city-journal.org/nih-blocks-access-to-genetics-d... “If you write: ‘I believe that everyone should be treated equally,’ you will be branded as a right winger,” Vinod Aggarwal, the chair of Asian Studies at the university, said in an interview. - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/us/ucla-dei-statement.htm... UC Berkeley’s rubric for evaluating diversity statements penalized candidates for saying that they prefer to “treat everyone the same,” or for objecting to racially segregated affinity groups. As my reporting has shown, by the early 2020s, the Berkeley rubric had become something of a gold standard, used by search committees across the country, including at the University of New Mexico, University of South Carolina, Northwestern University, and Ohio State University. - Sources: https://www.city-journal.org/article/a-death-knell-for-diver... https://www.nas.org/reports/diversity-statement-then-dossier... https://www.wsj.com/articles/nih-national-institutes-health-... https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nih-sacrifices-scientific-r... https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-ohio-states-dei-factory-...
n4r9
Neutral mention · rule
> scientists use "race" in their research as if it is a legitimate means of categorizing people The journal Nature Human Behaviour published ethics guidelines in Aug 2022 which touch on this: > Race and ethnicity are sociopolitical constructs. Humans do not have biological races, at least based on modern biological criteria for the identification of geographical races or subspecies. > Studies that use the constructs of race and/or ethnicity should explicitly motivate their use. Race/ethnicity should not be used as proxies for other variables — for example, socioeconomic status or income. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 There was a furore here in the discussion of it on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32595083
somenameforme
Neutral mention · rule
This might have been a viable argument a decade ago because these rules were implicit and not explicit. But as of 2022 they've become explicit. [1] IQ is distributed dramatically differently in different groups, which makes it difficult to meaningfully study in the US because, as Nature now puts it, "Although academic freedom is fundamental, it is not unbounded... Science has for too long been complicit in perpetuating structural inequalities and discrimination in society..." This is why meaningful studies on IQ are basically dead in the US and similarly why we were one of last countries to confirm the absolutely critical reversal of the Flynn Effect. I think the…
Read the full comment
political tide started to turn really hard after the decades long Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study ended up definitively proving the opposite of what it intended. [2] [1] - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption...
josephcsible
Neutral mention · rule
Indeed. Remember when Nature said they're no longer going to accept papers that contradict their political beliefs? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 Or when they explicitly started endorsing political candidates and then tried to justify doing so? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00789-5
murphyslab
Neutral mention · rule
I suspect it is a paraphrase of the Nature (journal portfolio) "research ethics guidance" published in 2022. That guidance claims an ethical imperative to avoid "indirect" causation of "harm". Here is a quote from the editorial announcing the update: > Harms can also arise indirectly, as a result of the publication of a research project or a piece of scholarly communication – for instance, stigmatization of a vulnerable human group or potential use of the results of research for unintended purposes (e.g., public policies that undermine human rights or misuse of information to threaten public health). -- Nature Human…
Read the full comment
Behaviour https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 Hence, according to the publishers of the Nature journal portfolio, if a finding could be used to support a policy which would cause a negative effect for some "vulnerable human group", or which might cause them to be subject to further stigmatization, then there is a moral imperative to not undertake or to not publish that scientific research. If you are interested in those who have critiqued the editorial and the new guidance, I'd refer you to this post at Heterodox STEM: https://hxstem.substack.com/p/ideological-mandates-in-publis... Alternatively, the editorial staff at Nature offer their endorsement of their own policy here: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01607-0
Bran_son
Neutral mention · rule
> Fascist ideology doesn't want the idea of truth to exist Fascism: Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans [..] In some cases, however, potential harms to the populations studied may outweigh the benefit of publication. - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 Science Must Not Be Used to Foster White Supremacy [..] For another thing, scientists must do some soul-searching about why they are so motivated to look for evidence that traits like intelligence or propensity to violence are written in our genes, or that they would be different for people in different racial groups. - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-must-not-... The National Institutes of Health now blocks access to an important database if it thinks a scientist’s research may enter “forbidden” territory. - https://www.city-journal.org/nih-blocks-access-to-genetics-d...
nhchris
Neutral mention · rule
Since the topic is academia, Nature recently announced they will not publish some studies, not based on their veracity, but on whether they may further the wrong politics: Advancing knowledge and understanding is a fundamental public good. In some cases, however, potential harms to the populations studied may outweigh the benefit of publication. - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 Discussed at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32595083
Vt71fcAqt7
Neutral mention · rule
Is it a strawman if the editorial referenced by the article basically holds GP's point (as I remember it at least, I can't see it now) >In creating this guidance, we took as a starting point the first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights — humans are “free and equal in dignity and rights”[0] This document was written before the discovery of the double helix. How can we take it as a starting point? I think the flagged post was perhaps flame-baity, but I don't think the point you're making is so cut and dry. As I remember it, GP's argument was that liberal ideology holds the equalness of all people as a fundamental truth rather than a result of inquiry. That seems to be what is happening in reputable scientific jounals. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2
futuretaint
Neutral mention · rule
Here's the Nature article from last week which was surprising to many inc Hacker News https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 re: hard sciences, the scientific community's refusal to accept the covid lab leak hypothesis stands out IMHO. School shutdowns/mask mandates for pre-k and public schools is another politicalized issue.
jwond
Neutral mention · rule
> take "inclusion", there's a lot of work showing that a more diverse, inclusive population leads to better results (in social siences etc.) so it's obvious for me that people will use it more I imagine it would be difficult getting a paper published that shows otherwise since diversity, equity, and inclusion have seemingly become tantamount to unquestionable religious dogma. For example, you have the Biden administration publishing this blatantly contradictory guidance: > The scientific integrity principles and best practices identified in the report aim to ensure that science is conducted, managed, communicated, and used in ways that preserve its accuracy and…
Read the full comment
objectivity and protect it from suppression, manipulation, and inappropriate influence—including political interference. > > […] > > Scientific integrity policies should be modernized to address important, emergent issues of our time. They must advance diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2022/01/11/whit... Then you have Nature with this “ethics guidance” that seem to suggest it would be considered unethical to publish a study that challenges the present narrative of diversity, equity, and inclusion: > Academic content that […] promotes privileged, exclusionary perspectives raises ethics concerns that may require revisions or supersede the value of publication. > Science has for too long been complicit in perpetuating structural inequalities and discrimination in society. With this guidance, we take a step towards countering this. > Consideration of risks and benefits (above and beyond any institutional ethics review) underlies the editorial process of all forms of scholarly communication in our publications. Editors consider harms that might result from the publication of a piece of scholarly communication, may seek external guidance on such potential risks of harm as part of the editorial process, and in cases of substantial risk of harm that outweighs any potential benefits, may decline publication (or correct, retract, remove or otherwise amend already published content). > Regardless of content type (research, review or opinion) and, for research, regardless of whether a research project was reviewed and approved by appropriate ethics specialists, editors may raise with the authors concerns regarding potentially sexist, misogynistic, and/or anti-LGBTQ+ assumptions, implications or speech in their submission; engage external ethics experts to provide input on such issues as part of the peer review process; or request modifications to (or correct or otherwise amend post-publication), and in severe cases refuse publication of (or retract post-publication) sexist, misogynistic, and/or anti-LGBTQ+ content https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2
like_any_other
Neutral mention · rule
Took them long enough to finally object, as this is just the latest in a long line of attacks against science. Previously, scientists were forced to make an ideological oath to diversity to get hired [1,2], were hired primarily based on adherence to that ideology [3,4,5], were told by major scientific publications to avoid or simply not publish studies that might question that ideology [6,7], disavowed studies based solely on them being used to criticize favored causes [8], were prosecuted by the state (in Sweden) for true findings that harmed that ideology [9]. Papers were rejected if their results went against the liberal worldview, but methodologically-identical papers…
Read the full comment
with pro-liberal results were accepted [10], and scientists were barred from accessing taxpayer-funded data if there was a risk their research might harm the dominant ideology [11]. [1] Required ‘diversity and inclusion’ statements amount to a political litmus test for hiring - https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-universitys-new-loyalty-oat... [2] Diversity Statements Required for One-Fifth of Academic Jobs - https://www.schoolinfosystem.org/2021/11/11/study-diversity-... [3] Berkeley Weeded Out Job Applicants Who Didn't Propose Specific Plans To Advance Diversity - https://reason.com/2020/02/03/university-of-california-diver... [4] A recent report from the Goldwater Institute found that 80% of job postings for Arizona’s public universities required applicants to submit a statement detailing their commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion. - https://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/policy-report/the-new-loy... [5] Mathematicians divided over faculty hiring practices that require proof of efforts to promote diversity - https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/mathematicians-divid... [6] Science Must Not Be Used to Foster White Supremacy - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-must-not-... [7] Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 [8] I Cited Their Study, So They Disavowed It - https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-cited-their-study-so-they-dis... [9] A Swedish professor proved that most rapes are committed by immigrants. The prosecutor's office took care of it - https://portal.research.lu.se/en/activities/a-swedish-profes... [10] Human subjects review, personal values, and the regulation of social science research. - https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-12806-001 [11] The National Institutes of Health now blocks access to an important database if it thinks a scientist’s research may enter “forbidden” territory. - https://www.city-journal.org/nih-blocks-access-to-genetics-d... Honorable mentions: “If you write: ‘I believe that everyone should be treated equally,’ you will be branded as a right winger,” Vinod Aggarwal, the chair of Asian Studies at the university, said in an interview. - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/us/ucla-dei-statement.htm... UC Berkeley’s rubric for evaluating diversity statements penalized candidates for saying that they prefer to “treat everyone the same,” or for objecting to racially segregated affinity groups. As my reporting has shown, by the early 2020s, the Berkeley rubric had become something of a gold standard, used by search committees across the country, including at the University of New Mexico, University of South Carolina, Northwestern University, and Ohio State University. - https://www.city-journal.org/article/a-death-knell-for-diver... https://www.nas.org/reports/diversity-statement-then-dossier... https://www.wsj.com/articles/nih-national-institutes-health-... https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nih-sacrifices-scientific-r... https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-ohio-states-dei-factory-...
like_any_other
Neutral mention · rule
Glad Harvard finally decided attacks against academia have gone too far. It wasn't too far when scientists were forced to make an ideological oath to diversity to get hired [1,2], when they were hired primarily based on adherence to that ideology [3,4,5], when they were told by major scientific publications to avoid or simply not publish studies that might question that ideology [6,7], when they disavowed studies based solely on them being used to criticize favored causes [8], when papers were rejected if their results went against the liberal worldview, but methodologically-identical papers with pro-liberal results were accepted [9], or when scientists were barred from…
Read the full comment
accessing taxpayer-funded data if there was a risk their research might harm the dominant ideology [10]. It was too far - a crisis! - when Harvard disagreed with the attackers, when the attackers were outsiders. [1] Required ‘diversity and inclusion’ statements amount to a political litmus test for hiring - https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-universitys-new-loyalty-oat... [2] Diversity Statements Required for One-Fifth of Academic Jobs - https://www.schoolinfosystem.org/2021/11/11/study-diversity-... [3] Berkeley Weeded Out Job Applicants Who Didn't Propose Specific Plans To Advance Diversity - https://reason.com/2020/02/03/university-of-california-diver... [4] A recent report from the Goldwater Institute found that 80% of job postings for Arizona’s public universities required applicants to submit a statement detailing their commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion. - https://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/policy-report/the-new-loy... [5] Mathematicians divided over faculty hiring practices that require proof of efforts to promote diversity - https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/mathematicians-divid... [6] Science Must Not Be Used to Foster White Supremacy - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-must-not-... [7] Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 [8] I Cited Their Study, So They Disavowed It - https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-cited-their-study-so-they-dis... [9] Human subjects review, personal values, and the regulation of social science research. - https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-12806-001 [10] The National Institutes of Health now blocks access to an important database if it thinks a scientist’s research may enter “forbidden” territory. - https://www.city-journal.org/nih-blocks-access-to-genetics-d...
like_any_other
Neutral mention · rule
This administration's actions are indeed unprecedented and hostile to science, but the author is pulling a trick - he is not speaking about science itself, but about the scientific community. Because if he were speaking about science, he would have to concede it has been under attack for a while - when scientists were forced to make an ideological oath to diversity to get hired [1,2], were hired primarily based on adherence to that ideology [3,4,5], were told by major scientific publications to avoid or simply not publish studies that might question that ideology [6,7], disavowed studies based solely on them being used to criticize favored causes [8], were prosecuted by…
Read the full comment
the state (albeit in Sweden) for true findings that harmed that ideology [9]. Papers were rejected if their results went against the liberal worldview, but methodologically-identical papers with pro-liberal results were accepted [10], and scientists were barred from accessing taxpayer-funded data if there was a risk their research might harm the dominant ideology [11]. Yes, science has been under attack for a while, but the author didn't notice because it was his ally scientists attacking it. [1] Required ‘diversity and inclusion’ statements amount to a political litmus test for hiring - https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-universitys-new-loyalty-oat... [2] Diversity Statements Required for One-Fifth of Academic Jobs - https://www.schoolinfosystem.org/2021/11/11/study-diversity-... [3] Berkeley Weeded Out Job Applicants Who Didn't Propose Specific Plans To Advance Diversity - https://reason.com/2020/02/03/university-of-california-diver... [4] A recent report from the Goldwater Institute found that 80% of job postings for Arizona’s public universities required applicants to submit a statement detailing their commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion. - https://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/policy-report/the-new-loy... [5] Mathematicians divided over faculty hiring practices that require proof of efforts to promote diversity - https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/mathematicians-divid... [6] Science Must Not Be Used to Foster White Supremacy - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-must-not-... [7] Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 [8] I Cited Their Study, So They Disavowed It - https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-cited-their-study-so-they-dis... [9] A Swedish professor proved that most rapes are committed by immigrants. The prosecutor's office took care of it - https://portal.research.lu.se/en/activities/a-swedish-profes... [10] Human subjects review, personal values, and the regulation of social science research. - https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-12806-001 [11] The National Institutes of Health now blocks access to an important database if it thinks a scientist’s research may enter “forbidden” territory. - https://www.city-journal.org/nih-blocks-access-to-genetics-d...
somenameforme
Neutral mention · rule
There's a tricky (and super interesting) thing with IQ studies. Environmental factors play a dominant role early on, but genetics becomes more and more dominant as a person ages; significant privilege or disadvantage earlier in life notwithstanding (excepting major physical impairment by nutrition, lead, etc)! Most studies tend to find the heritability of adult IQ at around 80%. Any research on this area is walking on egg shells and so researchers are highly incentivized to overemphasize possible environmental explanations. Nature formalized this threat/risk with their relatively recent announcement [1], but it seems to have been an unspoken 'rule' for decades at least. [1] - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2
Bran_son
Neutral mention · rule
Systemic racial discrimination in academia (despite Democrats outnumbering Republicans 10 to 1 in faculty [1] - curiously few studies look at whether that might be due to discrimination) is a perfectly analogous conspiracy, yet it is accepted by default. However, you are correct - cherry-picking which parts of an article to believe is not very convincing. So let me substantiate my claim: The authors also submitted different test studies to different peer-review boards. The methodology was identical, and the variable was that the purported findings either went for, or against, the liberal worldview (for example, one found evidence of discrimination against minority groups,…
Read the full comment
and another found evidence of "reverse discrimination" against straight white males). Despite equal methodological strengths, the studies that went against the liberal worldview were criticized and rejected, and those that went with it were not. [2] That was in 1985. Nowadays, it is done openly: Nature publicly stated they will not publish studies that may "harm" (broadly defined) various groups [3], regardless of validity, and commitments to diversity are officially required by one fifth of academic jobs [4]. Of course, if we're talking about discrimination in academia, we skipped a step: as your own quotation implies ("it does not follow that disparities in IQ between groups have a genetic basis"), there are group IQ disparities. Since IQ is a useful (if imperfect) measure of academic ability, from that alone we would expect disparate outcomes, even in a perfect meritocracy. It does not matter if the IQ disparities are genetic, cultural, or socio-economic in origin (or some combination thereof). Though it is strange. Bizarre even. Nearly every other heritable human trait - height, skin pigmentation, lactose tolerance, eye and hair color, bone density, sickle cell trait, muscle composition, high altitude adaptation [5], alcohol metabolism [6], etc., is unevenly distributed among human groups. Yet even though IQ and personality are both heritable [7] and variable, they're the rare exception, perfectly equally distributed among all human groups? Nature truly works in mysterious ways. [1] https://www.nas.org/academic-questions/31/2/homogenous_the_p... [2] https://theweek.com/articles/441474/how-academias-liberal-bi... [3] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01443-2 [4] https://www.schoolinfosystem.org/2021/11/11/study-diversity-... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_hu... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction [7] https://www.nature.com/articles/tp201596

Keep following the thread.

More in Other research

More from the same topics.